Wednesday, 23 September 2020

Are They Being Deliberately Stupid Or Is It Natural

Are the proponents of lockdown being deliberately stupid, so as to ignore how idiotic it is, and how ridiculous their arguments in defence of it have now become, or are they genuinely too stupid to be able to think critically, because that would mean admitting that they have pursued a failed and counter-productive strategy for the last six months?

Tim Martin is an odious, right-wing Brexiteer who championed the cause of Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson and other of that ilk. It would be easy, now, to gloat and to think that Martin has got his comeuppance, as an incompetent Johnson sends the economy into one disaster after another. Promote clowns like Farage and Johnson, or, in the US, Trump, and you get what you deserve, we might conclude sanguinely. But, of course, in the catastrophe that is going to unfold in respect of Brexit, and more immediately as a result of the lockdown, and other measures of partial lockdown that the government is introducing, and that Keir Starmer has been goading on with a political whip, it will not be the likes of Martin who will really suffer. It is going to be the thousands, indeed millions, of workers in the leisure industry, and other service industries that now comprise around 80% of the UK economy, and 80% of employment in Britain, as in most other developed economies. Already, Wetherspoons is getting rid of 450 out of 1,000 jobs in its airport outlets, and many more are now bound to disappear across the sector. Thousands of jobs in retail have already gone, with millions more about to go when the unsustainable furlough scheme comes to an end next month. Estimates are, now, that around a quarter of all companies in Britain, or about 1.25 million businesses, are zombie companies, hanging on only able to pay interest on their loans, which absorbs the whole of their profits, where they are making any.

Yet, as my wife said yesterday, hearing Martin from another room, and so not realising who was speaking until she came in, “That's the first time I've actually heard him say anything I agree with.” And, the truth is that, if you don't base your politics on simply putting a minus sign, where odious right-wingers like Martin place a plus sign, in his comments about Johnson's latest set of insane proposals, in relation to lockdowns, there was, indeed, considerably more rationality and argument, based upon facts, than anything coming from Johnson or Starmer. The fact is that there is little evidence of people being infected with COVID in pubs and restaurants etc., where staff have been implementing, and ensuring that customers abide by, physical distancing requirements, as well as the use of face masks and so on.

Just as a digression, the question of face masks is another example of this. Everyone now accepts the need for the use of face masks as a useful means of preventing the spread of the virus. Masks are useless to prevent you getting the virus, but they do stop those who have it from spreading it to others, by preventing the dispersion of virus laden globules from people's mouths. So, again, when people automatically align with the WHO against the moron Trump, it is yet again another example of this mindless placing of a minus sign wherever your opponent places a plus sign, rather than examining the facts, and drawing rational conclusions of your own. In the 1930's, Trotsky described that kind of mindless approach, and advised socialists to Learn to Think. Trump, of course, has his own political, as well as moronic, reasons for criticising the WHO, and yet his criticism of that organisation is no reason why socialists should then mindlessly support it, any more than just because the libertarian right attack the BBC, which is the capitalist state's propaganda arm, it is any reason why socialists should then support it.

The truth is that the WHO, early on, argued AGAINST people wearing masks, saying that it would be counterproductive and ineffective, despite the fact that mask wearing, in many parts of the world, in response to previous epidemics had shown its effectiveness. The WHO's advice was mindlessly picked up by government advisors in Britain, and elsewhere, who, with a moral panic in full swing, did not want to be seen to be arguing against the established meme. They argued that if everyone wore masks it would mean that those in health and social care who needed them, wouldn't be able to get them, which says a lot about how prepared these organisations actually were to deal even with a bad flu season. The truth is that, if the WHO and government advisors had recommended wearing masks six months ago, tens of thousands of lives would have been saved. The WHO's response to COVID19 has been pretty abysmal, as has its response to previous epidemics.  The fact that the moron Trump also points that out does not change matters.

Similarly, Martin is right in relation to pubs and restaurants, and imposing restrictions on them is simply an act for show rather than for effectiveness, which has been the case with pretty much all of the government's response, as well as of Labour's demands placed upon it. The truth is that many of those younger people, turfed out of pubs early in the evening, will now simply go to drink in public, where, evidence is, they will not abide by any measures of physical distancing. They will return to holding large scale raves, in public open spaces, or as in the 1990's in some available warehouse, of having shabeens on large estates. And, to respond to this breaking of its rules, the government, now, is turning the state even more into an authoritarian police state, with the added threat of martial law, with troops being lined up to enforce these draconian limitations on civil liberties.

And, again, the truth is that even if the mostly younger people involved were to transmit the virus to one another, as a consequence of such gatherings, the risk to them from the virus is miniscule. More than half the people dying from COVID19 are aged over 80, the majority of them over 85. 92% of people dying from, or suffering serious illness from COVID are aged over 60. The mean average age of death is 81! Of the remaining 8% of deaths, 7% are people with underlying medical conditions that compromise their immune system, and we will no doubt find that, of the remaining 1%, they too had some such condition that had not been diagnosed. The chances of dying or being seriously ill from COVID19 are incredibly small for people under 60. You are currently five times more likely to die from flu, if you are under 60 than you are from COVID. If you are under 40, you are currently ten times more likely to die from flu than from COVID. And, that is despite the fact that we already have vaccines for flu.

So, its not young people that are at serious risk from COVID, but only old people, yet it is young people that are being demonised for their normal activities, and being made scapegoats for the failed policies of the government and opposition. It is young people that are suffering the consequences of those failed and idiotic policies, as they lose their jobs by the thousands, and as it is the wages of younger people that are being devastated most. And, now, at the same time, those young people are being demonised and criminalised, with the threat of £10,000 fines, and the use of the armed forces against them.

A Left, that does not respond vigorously against such action is a Left not worthy of the name, a Left that deserves to be branded with infamy, and disregarded by the current generation of young people that have been abandoned by it. Starmer has become a bigger Brexiteer than Corbyn, and now has adopted the reactionary delusions of the Lexiters, as he calls on Johnson to push through Brexit with all haste, promising also to continue with that Brexit, as he pursues the reactionary, utopian delusion of building Social-Democracy in One Country. As a result, Labour already is throwing away the support from that younger generation that Corbyn won in 2017. Starmer might be winning back some of the reactionary voters, as he promises to become an ardent Brexiteer, and passionate promoter of nationalism/patriotism, whereby Britain would not just waive the rules, but also again rule the waves, as in the days of Empire, but anyone who thinks that is the way for even a social-democratic party to behave, let alone one some of whose members have aspirations of socialism, is seriously deluded.

Labour may be benefiting in the short term, from Johnson's incompetence, just as the Democrats are benefiting from Trump's idiocy and incompetence in the middle of a pandemic, but that will not last. In the longer term, what millions of workers will see is that the imposition of lockdowns was neither effective nor rational, whilst the consequences of the lockdown was to devastate the economy and cause the loss of millions jobs, destroying lives and livelihoods for years to come.

Already, we know that thousands of excess deaths have resulted from the imposition of lockdowns as many people did not get the medical treatment for other illnesses they required. Across the globe, particularly in poorer countries, the deaths from malnutrition, and other symptoms of poverty, caused by the global slowdown caused by the lockdowns, far outweigh any deaths from the virus. Whilst, currently, Trump and Johnson are the ones necessarily paying the political price of that, in coming weeks as unemployment soars, and economic catastrophe beckons, they will be easily able to point to the fact that it is lockdowns that are the cause of it, and that if their political opponents had had their way, the lockdowns would have been even more draconian, even more long-lasting, even wider in their application, so that the damage to the economy and to people's livelihoods would have been even worse. They will be able to argue that they only pushed the lockdowns in the way they did, because they had been pressurised by their political opponents to do so, egged on by the media. It may not be sufficient to save Trump, but with four years to go to a General Election in Britain, it will certainly doom Starmer. And, with a Biden presidency inevitably repeating all of the failed politics of Clinton, and Obama, the Democrats occupancy of the White House and control of Congress also looks set to be shortlived, and merely a prelude to a further move forward of the US Right, just as the failure of Macron has done in France.

And, it is a fact that lockdowns were an idiotic policy that was bound to fail, and have failed. It was inevitable, as many epidemiologists said from the start, and indeed as I said, that as soon as those lockdowns, or similarly the intense test and trace regimes, were relaxed, then the virus would simply resurge. And so, wherever those policies were adopted, it has. No matter how many times such lockdowns are introduced the same will continue to happen. Already the partial lockdowns on social activity that have been implemented have caused the worst economic slowdown in 300 years. Further such lockdowns will threaten to send the global economy back to conditions not seen for more than a century, as it will not just be a slowdown in the amount of new value created, but an actual destruction of capital itself, as businesses are closed down, and buildings, machinery and other means of production are simply scrapped, because they cannot be used.

On top of that the payment of people and businesses to not produce has raised levels of debt to unsustainable levels, because this debt is completely different to the debt undertaken to finance investment and productive activity, it is debt to simply finance consumption. Those who think that this can be remedied by consuming from the fruit of the Magic Money Tree are equally deluded. You cannot eat all those additional banknotes that are printed, you cannot clothe yourself in those banknotes, and so on. The more of them you print, the less each of them are worth, and if you simply use them to pay people not to work, then there are no goods and services for these worthless bits of paper to buy anyway!

Last night, on Sky's Paper Review, Isabelle Oakshott asked Sonia Sodha this simple question, if there is no vaccine by this time next year, will you still be arguing that the economy has to be locked down. Sodha could not answer, because the proponents of lockdown have no answer. They know that the lockdown has already caused massive economic damage; they know any further lockdown will cause even more damage, but they can't withdraw from it, because they have not thought through any other rational alternative, and know that to do so would mean admitting that their previous arguments were deeply flawed. They have no alternative but to act like a goldfish, continually swimming around its bowl, saying to itself “Oh look a castle, Oh look a castle”, hoping that, as they repeat the same failed experiment, they might get a different result. As Einstein described such behaviour, the definition of stupidity.

And, of course, not only is the experience of the failure of lockdowns evidence that it offers no rational solution. There is an alternative experiment that has had different, this time successful results. That is the experience of Sweden. It made the same mistakes in relation to the lockdown of care homes, as other countries, but has since remedied that. It never did lockdown, and yet Sweden has had better per capita mortality rates than most other European countries from the start. It essentially ended all new COVID deaths months ago. In September it has had just 30 deaths, or less than 2 per day. Of course, you would not know this from listening to the media, or politicians, because, from the start, they vilified Sweden for pointing out that the Emperor had no clothes on, and so daring to digress from the established meme. Indeed, those epidemiologists like Professor Sunetra Gupta who pointed out the truth about lockdowns have faced similar ire.

Yet, as Professor Ioaniddis said months ago, the response to COVID was likely to be the biggest data fiasco in a century, and so it has been. The predictions of 45 million global deaths, a repetition from the same source at Imperial College, of the prediction of 45 million Swine Flu Deaths, have proved to be just as wildly wrong. So far, global deaths from COVID have not reached even a million, whilst deaths from economic consequences of lockdowns are already way in excess of that. In Britain, the predictions of half a million deaths were equally wildly exaggerated, with deaths at still only just over 40,000, still much less than the number of flu deaths in Britain in 1968.

The experience of Sweden shows, as Professor Gupta and others have said all along, that the only rational solution is to isolate the 20% of the population, i.e. mostly those aged over 60, from the virus, so as to allow herd immunity to develop safely in the rest of the population. In the 1950's, when there were no widespread vaccines available for many diseases such as chicken pox, or mumps and so on, that is indeed what used to occur. Parents would allow their kids to visit friends who had such diseases, so as to become infected, and, thereby develop immunity, because they were less serious in childhood than in adulthood. With no vaccine in sight for COVID for another year, it is the only sensible course of action now, given that we know that for 80% of the population, it is asymptomatic, or has only very mild cold like symptoms attached to it. That is how Sweden has been able to develop herd immunity, and has now more or less stopped all new deaths from it.

But, of course, those that have been promoting that insane lockdown policy cannot admit that. Isabel Oakshott is a right-wing media hack, but again, that does not make everything she says automatically wrong. So, she was absolutely correct last night on Sky to point out that the number of deaths in Britain of people under 60, who had no underlying medical conditions was just 307. Its no wonder that the other contributors to the programme had no knowledge of this fact, because neither the government nor the media have had any interest in promoting that fact, as against their incessant talk about the number of infections, which is a meaningless statistic, and not just because it is based upon a deeply flawed testing regime. It is meaningless, because its not how many people are infected that is important, given that the vast majority of infections are asymptomatic, but only the number of deaths or serious illness. And, of course, illustrating why the new measures introduced by the government, egged on by Labour, are so idiotic, is that even though the number of infections have risen, there are no current cases of people in intensive care, and the number of new deaths remains relatively low, indeed much lower than deaths from flu!

The response to those facts being pointed out has itself been idiotic. Sodha's response to the fact that there has only been 307 deaths of people under 60 was to retort, "well have you no concern for those 307 people"! We could, then, every year, say, "well have you no concern for the 8,000 people who die on average from flu, or the 17,000 who died in 2018 from flu? Should we then keep the economy in a total state of lockdown in perpetuity so as to avoid any deaths from any virus, be it flu or COVID? Indeed, should we not just abandon any activity that might result in a risk of death?" Its only necessary to ask the question to see how ridiculous such an approach is, because all life has some risk attached to it, and it is a question of balancing those risks one with another. We do not close down the economy, because every year several thousand people will contract flu, and die, because doing so would result in far more people dying from the consequences of such action. So, why on Earth would you close down the economy, and social interaction to avoid the death of just 307 people.

What is far more significant, here, is the 40,000 people, over 60, who have died, and whose deaths could have been avoided had other action been undertaken. Had that 40,000 people, and all of the others in the 20% of the population actually at risk from COVID, been isolated from it, then their lives could have been saved. Sodha's response to this argument was the most idiotic I have yet heard. She said that many of those people could not be isolated, because they depend on other people coming to take care of them in care homes and in hospitals, and so contact with these other people was unavoidable. Its as though she had never heard of the concept of PPE so that those providing such care do not transmit infections to those for whom they are providing care, or that she has never heard of the concept of initiating contact protocols to prevent such transmission of infections. This is just one example of those who have mindlessly promoted the idea of lockdowns, who, when confronted with the facts, seem to grab at any old argument, to cling to their failed agenda. After all, if a care home or a hospital isn't somewhere you can go, and expect to be protected from the transmission of infections, where can you? Its as though Sodha thinks that when someone goes into hospital for a routine operation they should expect to die from an infection, because, after all, why would you expect the operating theatre to be sterile, that the surgeon's instruments are sterilised, or that the surgeon will wear surgical gloves, masks and other PPE?!

The other argument she grabbed at was that there have been some cases of people who have suffered longer term conditions, such as chronic fatigue. But, those that bring forward such arguments never provide any actual data. Before taking any of these claims seriously, we need to know how many people have suffered such conditions, what proportion does this constitute, do we actually know that these conditions are a consequence of COVID or some other virus or condition, and are these people who are under 60 and have no other underlying condition, or are they also mainly people over 60, or who have some other condition that made them vulnerable?  The data we have suggests that only 20% of younger people who are ill with COVID19, suffer some form of chronic fatigue lasting several weeks.  But, the data also shows that the number of younger people who are actually ill with COVID19 is itself very small.  Those under 60 with no known illness comprise only 1% of deaths, and about the same proportion applies in relation to those suffering more than mild symptoms.  20% of a small number is an even smaller number, in this case, 20% of 1% is just 0.2%.  But, COVID is not peculiar in this regard, because longer term chronic fatigue is a feature of many other viruses.

Similarly, the argument is sometimes raised that herd immunity can't be the way forward, because there have been reported cases of people who have been reinfected. In fact, there is only one documented case of someone who has been reinfected, and that was of someone who first had a strain of COVID19 prevalent in North America, who subsequently was infected with a strain prevalent in Europe. Basing yourself on just one case is not a very scientific way of proceeding, but, in any case, this individual was asymptomatic, because having developed immunity against the North American strain, it was sufficient to give them resistance to the European strain. More importantly, the mindlessness of those that make this argument is shown by the fact that, if it were valid, it would mean there is no point in spending time developing a vaccine. They seem unaware that vaccines also work by creating artificial herd immunity as opposed to naturally acquired herd immunity. It involves the production of antibodies to fight off the virus. If its not possible to develop immunity by natural means to prevent reinfection, then a vaccine which works by also producing such an immune response will not work either!

Sodha's idiotic argument was almost equalled by Boris Johnson, who in his address to the nation talked about it not being acceptable to “lock up” the old and vulnerable. But, no one is talking about locking up the old and vulnerable, any more than is already the case for some of them confined to care homes and hospitals. Any old person or sick person should, of course, be free to go out and risk infection with COVID or flu, or any other such disease, in just the same way that they are free to go out and smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol that might kill them, or in just the same way that someone with a nut allergy is free to go out and eat nuts if they so choose. But, all having made that choice must then accept the risk attached to their actions.

I would love to have been able to have gone dancing over the last six months. However, as someone aged over 60, and an asthmatic, even if the government had allowed me to do so, I would have chosen not to, in order to avoid the risk of infection. But, that would have been a matter of my choice. It would not have been a question of being locked up. On the contrary, it is the government's action in imposing the lockdown that has effectively meant that I am locked up, because they have taken away my choice as to whether to go dancing or not. And, although I would not have chosen to do that, I see no reason why someone under 60 in good health should not have that freedom to engage in such action, a part of any civilised, free society, because they could do so perfectly safely.

It is not a question of those of us in that vulnerable 20% being “locked up” as Johnson claims. I have been self isolating since March. But, that self isolation does not mean being “locked up”. I can still exercise in my garden, just as I can see my son and his partner safely there in the open air; I can walk the dog safely, or go for my daily half hour run, whilst keeping physically distant from others; I can talk to others online or via Skype, and so on. The idea that any of this amounts to being “locked up” is nonsense. What would be useful would be if the government facilitated that for everyone in the 20%, by ensuring that there was sufficient capacity for online deliveries, and that Britain had a fast and reliable broadband infrastructure. What would be useful would be if the government allowed the 80% of the population not at risk from COVID 19 to just get on with their lives as normal and build up herd immunity as has happened in Sweden, so that the virus is quickly killed off, and we can all get back to normal.

13 comments:

George Carty said...

Isn't Starmer's volte-face on Brexit driven by the fact that Covid has made it political suicide to advocate anything that smacks of open borders? (And especially joining Schengen, which would be a requirement were we to rejoin the EU.)

The countries which were the most successful against Covid (New Zealand and Taiwan being the most-quoted examples) were the ones which completely shut out any foreigners not on essential business, which reduced the influx of people primarily to returning citizens (who were themselves required to stay in centralized quarantine facilities).

It is also arguable that the Schengen zone is inherently flawed in that it has eliminated internal borders but without bringing its external border under a unified control. This is the human equivalent of how a free trade area cannot eliminate internal borders for trade: to do that you need at least regulatory alignment (a single market) plus a common external tariff (a customs union).

Boffy said...

George,

No, he would have done it anyway, because he is going after the reactionary nationalist, working-class vote in those "red wall" seats, in the belief that the core Labour vote elsewhere will stay with Labour whilst he does so. In other words, the same mistake that both Blair and Corbyn made in different ways. Labour lost core votes over decades as it shifted increasingly Right. Blair won in 1997 as the Tories disintegrated themselves over Europe, and moved away from conservative social democracy to petty-bourgeois reactionary nationalism, reducing them to their own core vote. Blair then progressively lost Labour's share of the vote too, the party became a shell, which had had for a time lots of members on paper - similar to when I first joined in 1974 - but very few activists, as everything became a matter of media campaigning, direct postal and phone bank contacts with voters, all aimed merely at gauging opinion rather than shaping it, which requires millions of activists talking to people and arguing for policies every day in the workplace, the pub and so on.

Look at what the socialists in NZ say, and you will see that what happened in there and Taiwan cannot be replicated in other places. But, the reality is even there you can prosper with autarky, and sooner or later testing and tracing is also relaxed and the virus resurges, as it has in NZ. Testing and tracing is now easier for oppositions to argue for, but it cannot work, any more than lockdowns. Only developing herd immunity naturally or by vaccine can work, and a vaccine is likely another year away.

What you say about FTA's is true, which is why the problem exists over Ireland, and without UK being inside the Single market, there will be no solution to the border question, other than a United Ireland. Shengen is flawed, and the EU does not a unified Borer Force, as well as a European Army. I am, however, an international socialist who is in favour of open borders everywhere, and scrapping all immigration controls. That does not mean there is no need for border controls in cases of pandemics, or to catch criminals etc.

George Carty said...

It wasn't just Labour but also the Lib Dems which have ruled out going into the next General Election on a "rejoin the EU" basis: I don't think that could be put down to a desire to appeal to nativist "red wall" voters!

And anyway, I think Starmer is right to attempt to rebuilt the red wall (even if this may be the wrong way to do it), as Labour cannot get the Tories out of power by winning metropolitan and BAME-heavy seats alone.

How would you respond to advocates of continued lockdown who argue that it is impossible to get the economy going again until the virus is eliminated, because people will stay at home anyway out of fear of the virus?

I suppose that could be blamed on lockdown itself (or more specifically on the campaign of fear that was needed to get people to consent to such a monumental trashing of civil liberties) – what do you think?

Boffy said...

The Liberals are currently having to respond to the pressure of public opinion, which accepts the idea that Brexit is an inevitability. I fully expect them to move away from that position the closer another election comes.

If labour can only win an election by adopting reactionary policies its better not to win. Besides, as I've argued before, I don't think the way to win back the "red wall seats" is to appease reactionary nationalism. Its constant explanation of the reactionary nature of Brexit, and the fact it offers no answer but only further misery, alongside a credible economic and social programme to provide the progressive alternative.

Lockdown is not going to eliminate the virus, and its impossible to lockdown for at least a year until a vaccine comes along. Even a vaccine may not eliminate the virus, as it depends on its efficacy, on how many people take it (which as the government loses credibility may become a significant number, having the disastrous effect of strengthening the position of the nutters in the anti-vax brigade. I think the more young people ignore the lockdown, and infection rates rise sharply, and yet death rates remain low, sustaining the lockdown will become impossible, and the ideas behind it will be discredited. Previously, the media spent a lot of time publicising the number of deaths when they were in the hundreds or thousands, but now, with deaths around 30-40, the media never mentions the numbers of deaths, but witters on endlessly about the number of infections, which is a meaningless statistic, for many reasons.

The problem will be that as the population realise that the lockdown was a failed strategy, and so begin to ignore it, it will not just be the young that will do so. It will also be the elderly and vulnerable - the more so as they get fed up of being locked up for month after month - and that will be disastrous, because they will then begin to succumb once more to it.

George Carty said...

How likely do you think it is that Starmer will face a leadership challenge before the next General Election?

After all, Corbyn faced two leadership challenges during his four years as Labour leader, instigated by right-wingers within the PLP. These challenges failed, because the rank-and-file membership was solidly left-wing, and because they didn't trust the "anti-Brexit" posture of the anti-Corbyn right (because many of the MPs involved had been willing to demagogue against immigrants prior to 2015).

Now by contrast, the Labour membership has been betrayed by a leader whom they elected (even though he wasn't as left-wing as they would have liked) precisely because they believed he was the most anti-Brexit candidate, while the PLP ought to be both more left-wing and more Europhile than before December 2019 as the Labour MPs defeated in that election were disproportionately centrist and nationalist: IIRC only 3 left-wing MPs were defeated, with Laura Pidcock and (pro-Brexit!) Dennis Skinner being two of those.

I'm at a loss to think of a strategy for Labour to win back the red wall, because the real issue is that the red wall is really the former coalfields of England, and the historic strength of the labour movement in those areas was a product of the long struggle by the miners against the coal owners. The miners (who believed they had won a great victory when coal was nationalized by the Attlee government) were thus suspicious of the supranationalism of the European Coal and Steel Community (predecessor to the EU): this was immortalized by Herbert Morrison (Attlee's deputy) as "the Durham miners won't wear it" and was responsible for mining regions being noticeably more Eurosceptic than average even in the 1975 referendum.

Once coal mining died (which was likely inevitable even without Thatcherism, and I don't think you see Blair's failure as being a failure to resurrect the mines) and was not replaced by any comparable mass-employment industry, these areas (especially the more rural ones: which were the ones which actually fell to the Tories in December) had no real reason to support Labour anymore. UK politics has become increasingly like US politics in beng defined on metropolitan vs hinterland lines, but with the right having a much greater advantage in the UK because it is a much whiter country (especially outside big cities) than the US.

Boffy said...

Its impossible to forecast from here. It depends what Starmer does. The Blair-rights main concern is to destroy the Left, i.e. the rank and file membership, and to remove any resurrection of democracy that could lead to deselections and another left-wing leader. Starmer has already showed he is up for that. Its why I thought the only acceptable candidate was Clive Lewis. If Starmer is able to do that, they will see no immediate need to challenge him. But, Starmer did pose Left, and got the support of many on the Left. Rank and file organisation is weak even though there are still lots of members on paper. Momentum has been useless almost from the beginning, and is now less than useless. The left sects will, as usual fuck everything up as their own sectarianism means they will not join in any real democratic rank and file organisation, as they each seek advantage to add one or two members to their own pathetic numbers. The Stalinists are even worse, and only point backwards. Paul Mason's strategy will lead to disaster as such strategies have always done in the past.

So, either the left sects prove me wrong, and do engage in the building of some real democratic rank and file movement, or else that is done by the rank and file itself, and some experienced non-aligned activists. The trouble is most of those like me are now getting old, and we don't have the energy to be able to do that in the way we did 40 years ago. So, to be honest, I'm not optimistic. If any such movement does pressure Starmer into not undermining party democracy, the Right will move against him, using his association with Corbyn as the pretext. The Tories are already using that attack line. Starmer's "New Leadership" line is a response to it, but designed to piss off all of those on the left who voted for him on the basis of continued support for those more progressive social-democratic positions.

The Right will move against him at some point, because he's not entirely their Man. They have a bigger problem in that the membership are both more left-wing, and more internationalist. The last thing they need is for the Party to become an actual international socialist party or progressive social-democratic party joining with other progressive social-democrats across Europe to push for an EU wide workers solution.

Cont'd

Boffy said...

Cont'd

On the red Wall. Read my posts from a couple of years ago on the Metropolitan Elite Myth. Labour was losing voters ever since the 1950's, along with most SD parties. Blair's win was more about the Tories losing votes, and again Labour started losing voters after 1997. Its a consequence of material conditions changing, but the fixed ideas of many older workers not changing with them, and to be honest, Labour has never tried to change those ideas. Instead it did what the Liberals do. It spoke one language to the younger more progressive minded workers that are its future, and obfuscated and hid its ideas on those questions when it spoke to older workers. It was inevitably going to lead to disaster in the end. But, the older voters are dying out.

the situation in the decaying industrial towns is a consequence of many younger, more progressive workers moving out, and going to cities, which is why Labour and Corbyn did well in those areas. It means the weight of the older more reactionary workers in those decaying areas is disproportionate. But, that will change. The older workers are dying out, and new industries are also developing in those towns, because property is cheap. My son, and a large proportion of his friends, for example, are employed in media production, and other high tech industries. The nature of the towns will change, and probably more rapidly due to COVID and the lockdown. Property prices in London and other big cities are falling because those who can work from home, are now leaving the cities, and moving to rural areas, or to the smaller towns where property prices are a fraction of what they are in the cities.

The ECSC was in fact a better hope for mines, precisely because it extended the social democratic principle of planning and regulation to an international level - rather like actually CAP. In fact, as I've written before, Labour scrapped far more mining jobs following nationalisation than Thatcher ever did. More mining jobs went under Benn as Energy Minister than went under Thatcher, and although the NCB and government produced the Plan for Coal, it was a joke. The NCB was used purely to provide cheap energy for the electricity industry - and gas industry for a time - as well as for the big private companies that were large energy consumers.

Its not metropolitan v hinterland, its younger, better educated workers v older poorly educated workers and the small business class - many of whom flit into and out of it. A main reason for losing in 2019, was the better educated workers in the towns who support Labour as much as those in the cities, were turned away by Corbyn's pro-Brexit position.

George Carty said...

Do you think that anyone in Britain would see any hope in a progressive social-democratic push at an EU level, given that (weak as the British Labour Party is now) most of its continental counterparts are in even worse shape?

Your notion that the red wall was lost because remainers deserted Labour is absurd: while some remainers in southern constituencies (where remainers were a comfortable majority) may have been duped into thinking the Lib Dems could win (and tragically split the anti-Tory vote in places like Kensington), the remainers in leave-voting red wall constituencies would be under no such illusions unless they were severely ignorant or deluded. It would be blatantly obvious that they had to vote Labour to keep the Tories out.

Going back to the COVID issue, would you agree with me that lockdowners come in two varieties? One the one hand there are the extremists who believe that we must remain in lockdown until there is a vaccine (even if that takes years), and on the other hand are those who believe that lockdown itself can eliminate the virus permanently even without a vaccine, if only it is harsh enough.

I suspect this second type of lockdowner is the reason why popular support for lockdown is especially strong in Australia and New Zealand (as people could easily be convinced that "we can eliminate this if we just push a little harder"). Perhaps some of them are also influenced by the videos suggesting that China has completely returned to normal: the pool party in Wuhan or the night market on the Bund in Shanghai with not a trace of social distancing or masks.

What is your take on these videos that the Chinese are using to troll the West? To me there seem to be four possibilities:

1) That the lockdowns in China did defeat the virus, but by using methods so draconian that they would be impossible in a democracy?
2) That the Chinese have re-opened their society even though the lockdowns didn't defeat the virus, because they think they can cover up any Covid cases or deaths that result (both from foreign countries, and from their own people that may otherwise panic and self-lockdown)?
3) That the Chinese have already discovered a vaccine and/or cure and are withholding it from the rest of the world?
4) That the videos were staged propaganda (much like the Nazi propaganda film of the Jews in Theresienstadt) in which all participants were previously tested and/or quarantined?

Boffy said...

George,

You start from the premise that the role of a socialist is to chase after popularity, whereas the role of a socialist is to defend and promote socialist ideas, and thereby to create its own popularity. Its what Marx called winning the battle of democracy. The job of socialists is to promote socialist ideas, and to develop a strategy based upon them. As a strategy it is inevitably a longer-term perspective than anything that can arise from tailing the working-class and chasing popularity, which is simply ephemeral.

So, I am really not bothered whether there is much support for the idea of building an EU wide progressive social-democratic movement. It is what socialists and progressive social-democrats should argue for, because it is the only progressive way forward at the present time. I don't agree with your statement about the condition of European social-democracy, and I do not mean by that term simply the social-democratic parties, but also those involved in what are essentially social-democratic organisations like Podemos, the Left Bloc in Portugal, and the various groups that arose out of the disintegration of Syriza.

Your analysis of the behaviour of Remain voters in red wall seats is not born out by the facts, and analysis. The truth is that in 2017, they voted Labour because they saw it as the only hope of stopping Brexit. In Spring 2019, they abandoned Labour in droves, with even 60% of labour members voting Liberal or for some other party. In December, only a minority of those that had deserted Labour were won back, with the rest either voting Liberal, Green, Plaid, SNP or in the case of many simply abstaining. The main issue for them was the EU, and faced with two pro-Brexit parties they saw no reason to vote Labour. In the red wall and similar seats, the Tories by contrast were able to mobilise the Brexit Party vote, the vote that in other times goes to the BNP, as well as a chunk of that attendant layer of lumpen elements who usually do not vote. It also picked up some reactionary working-class voters on the basis of their hostility to Corbyn himself that the general climate had fostered, because of Corbyn's own failing in the intervening period.

Cont'd

Boffy said...

Cont'd

There are two types of lockdown supporters, but not distinguished in the way you propose. There are those who believed that lockdown would flatten the curve allowing medical services to be prepared to cope, and that testing and tracing would allow them to isolate a small number of infected people. They really didn't think it through, and were rushed into this action by the moral panic whipped up by the media on the basis of the hysterical projections of the team at Imperial, who simply repeated their hysterical projections in relation to Swine Flu. This group having committed to that course of action, and with no Plan B, have also seen that it didn't work, but that it also caused global economic chaos that is worse than the effects of the virus itself. They can't admit they were wrong, and that is why they are so desperate to demonise anyone who points out the facts about the failure of lockdown, and the inevitability that lockdown and test and trace in future will be equally ineffective. So, like Sonia Sodha, they simply refuse to answer the question of will you continue to be arguing for lockdown in a year's time, if the virus is still about.

The second group is people who are continually looking for the next catastrophe so as to pin it on capitalism, as part of their catastrophist narrative. Unlike the first group who hoped that somehow you could shut down society's production, but that everyone could somehow continue to be provided with goods and services, simply by handing out worthless bits of paper from the Magic Money Tree, to buy all these things that were not being produced, the second group were more than happy to see economic collapse. Its what they have been predicting and hoping for for years. They have the deluded view that its out of such catastrophe that people somehow become hostile to capitalism, and flock to their ranks to fight for the socialist society. Of course, all history shows the opposite happens, and such collapse inevitably leads to the rise of reactionary forces, that it promotes individualistic behaviour as scarcity drives a greater degree of dog eat dog competition for what exists, and so on.

Cont'd

Boffy said...

Cont'd

The two groups are not mutually exclusive. Some of the LP position, for example, is driven by a pure opportunism that sees that any catastrophe reflects badly ion the Tories, and gives them the opportunity to simply call for even more draconian measures, so as to paint the Tories as incompetent and not going far enough. But, it is also driven by the idea that the solution must come from the state, in the form of a vaccine, and so the only way forward is by the state imposing lockdowns. They really have no clue, having locked themselves into that position of backing the lockdown. Similarly, even as millions of workers in the US are losing their jobs from the lockdown, Biden is saying to them, as the election approaches, that of the virus does not disappear – which it won't – he would have no qualms about instituting a new harsh lockdown. In other words, he would have no qualms about consigning million of US workers to the dole and to increased poverty! This guy really doesn't deserve to win. Socialists, however, have to campaign for the Democrats, in order to build a real alternative to both Biden/Harris and to Trump.

In Britain, Labour is now pinning its hopes on Test & Trace (why do people say Track and Trace, when tracking and tracing is the same thing), but its just a means of not supporting the real solution of isolating the 20%, and developing herd immunity. It could never work, and not just because the testing and tracing systems are ineffective. Its a bit like the proposals for Training, as millions of workers face the dole. Training to do what exactly? If there are no jobs because lockdown has destroyed he economy, it simply means you have wasted a lot of money to produce millions of trained people who are now drawing dole. Who decides exactly what people are to be trained in? If we have lots of people trained to be shopworkers, but all retail trade goes online, that would have been a complete waste of resources. As usual its completely arse about face, and simply for show.

On Chinese videos I really have no opinion. What we do know is that China has not eradicated the virus, and nor can it until it has produced a vaccine and rolled it out, or until such time as it develops herd immunity, which its own lockdowns have slowed. If they'd produced an effective vaccine they would have thrown all the required resources into its production, and would have announced in big headlines, because they would gain kudos, and hundreds of billions of Dollars from its sale globally.

George Carty said...

I tried to characterize lockdown supporters on the basis of their policy preferences but you are classifying them based on their underlying motivations, separating those who are motivated by the fight against the virus, versus those who have other (unspoken) motivations.

I suspect your classification is more meaningful, although not all of the second group of lockdowners are the kind of cod-Marxists ("collapse capitalism, so that socialism can rise from the ashes") that you describe. There are also environmentalists who want to shrink the economy in order to reduce humanity's impact on the natural environment, as well as spiteful people who have failed to build a social life and like the idea of depriving other people of their social lives. This mentality is similar to that of the people in Sunderland who voted for Brexit because they were jealous of how much Nissan workers earned, and looked gleefully ahead to the prospect that they'd lose their jobs.

My point on China is that back in February and March the Chinese state paid thousands of social media trolls to demand that Western countries introduce lockdowns.

Even if the actual decisions by Western leaders to lock down had other motivations (most likely fear driven by the Imperial College projections you mentioned) it is clear that the Chinese state saw lockdowns in Western countries as being in China's interest. And China is now (through the videos I mentioned earlier) clearly spreading a narrative that their lockdown defeated the virus to the point that China has now returned to fully normal life, with the implication of course that Western lockdowns (except perhaps in New Zealand) have failed to defeat the virus because they didn't go far enough.

Perhaps this is an attempt by China to turn the terms of trade even more in their favour, on the basis that if lockdowns prevent Westerners from spending money on social activities, then they'd have more money to spend on Chinese goods purchased online?

Or perhaps China is seeking to convert Westerners to an authoritarian way of thinking, by saying that their dictatorship could defeat the virus while democracies couldn't?

Again on your last paragraph, what makes you so certain that "China has not eradicated the virus" either through its lockdown policies, or by means of a secret vaccine or cure not made available to other countries? I think we need more to justify this belief than "we can't figure out how they did it!" And if you're right, how has China stopped cases and deaths rising again to the point that people stay at home out of fear?

Boffy said...

George,

I may not be able to respond promptly to your comments in the next week or so, because I am pushed for time on a number of projects. I will try to respond as promptly as possible, and as time allows. Quickly, here.

The environmentalists I class in the same camp of catastrophists as the economic catastrophists. Incidentally, not all the economic catastrophists are "Marxists". The anarcho-capitalists also have a record of similar ideas, because they see modern capitalism, based upon large scale socialised capital, and the social-democratic state as Socialism. In the US, the Miseans routinely describe the US as Socialist. They see a collapse as the basis of a return to a Minarchist state, and of the return of the private capitalist. They are deluded too. I agree with your other point. There are no doubt people who have never had a foreign holiday who begrudge other workers that benefit, just as they begrudge public sector workers final salary pensions. There are also some who would never have a foreign holiday on principle, preferring to spend a miserable two weeks in the rain at the UK seaside.

I don't know the truth of the claims about Chinese trolls demanding lockdowns. I'm doubtful about such claims, because China needs western economies to be functioning at their optimum to provide demand for Chinese exports. China itself reported a few weeks ago that the virus had emerged in neighbouring provinces to Wuhan, and in Wuhan itself later, as the lockdown ended. Simple logic says they have no eliminated it. They have a population of over 1 billion, they have huge land borders that are fairly porous, they have large scale migration and travel to and from the country. The virus is asymptomatic in 80% of cases, so the vast majority of infections are undetected - which is why in Britain the real number of infections per day is currently around 50-70,000, not the 7,000 officially reported, which also means the mortality rate of around 50, is equal to less than 1 in 1,000 or 0.1%. The Chinese are just able to prevent the existence of the virus appearing in the media.