This is probably the first of the real big sounds of Northern. It debuted at the Torch either late 1970 or early 1971. In the Summer of 1971, I was working at the DHSS Offices in Hanley. The offices were part of a huge block of buildings in which was also situated the Top Rank, where that year we'd also started to dance on a Saturday, in addition to the Torch on a Friday.
I remember one decent Summer's day, Tony Blackburn was presenting the Radio 1 Road Show outside the Rank. Keith Minshull turned up with a copy of this, and was offered some absurd amount of money for it by TB. I can't remember now if it was £50, or £500. Both seemed absurd at the time. By comparison, I was earning £9 a week for running up and down stairs at the DHSS offices, which I could just about make up to £12, if I worked until 9 p.m. several nights a week, and a Saturday morning!
Of course, we couldn't afford to pay what people like Tony Blackburn could pay, but we could afford to pay the £1 for a bootleg copy on Jeff King's "Soul Sounds" label, which is why a long running debate arose at the time in the pages of Northern house journal "Blues & Soul", about the rights and wrongs of bootlegging.
Remember it well it actually premiered at TTW in 1970 I was at college and found myself sharing a classroom with a guy called Brian Phillips who went on to be a DJ at TTW I saw him sell a copy for £25.00 I earned £13.75 a week at the time>
ReplyDeleteSpot on Charles Slaney it sure was broke in by Brian 45 Phillips at The Wheel 69/70 I will be seeing Brian tonight as he is back behind the decks as a guest Dj at an all niter in Manchester.
ReplyDeleteSpot on Charles Slaney it sure was broke in by Brian 45 Phillips at The Wheel 69/70 I will be seeing Brian tonight as he is back behind the decks as a guest Dj at an all niter in Manchester.
ReplyDeleteGerry Dene,
ReplyDeleteYour very interesting comment got duplicated, and then I managed to delete both copies by mistake rather than just the duplicated copy. Could you resubmit, please?
Hi Gerry and all. The information that you have on Baby Reconsider is incorrect. Baby Reconsider was first played by me at the Chateau Impney, Droitwich (a counterpart of the Wheel) in 1968 and then, that same year, at the Catacombs, Wolverhampton. After I played it at the Chateau all the collectors were desperate to get a copy and Richard Sellwood, some time later, managed to get a copy imported from the USA. It was his copy of the record that was taken to the Wheel by Graham White ("Docker") and then, as they say, the rest is history. Most certainly it was the Wheel that had the ability to break the sounds to a larger audience and that was the case with this record. By the way, Brian Phillips, a great guy, is an old friend of mine from back in 1968 and deserves great credit for his contribution to the Northern scene.
ReplyDeleteCarl,
ReplyDeleteThanks for that, and sorry also for calling you Gerry!
Hi Carl, Thank you for your very informative reply. Its always an interesting subject once records are traced back to there original uncovering,first play in the U.K. You are very right in what you say about the record getting a spin in such a place as The Wheel. The wider ordinance would pick up on the record making it a big want for the local Djs and music fans with that credit going to the venue and Dj but not necessarily knowing its origin. Barbara Mills "Queen of fools" Is one I would love to nail down on were it came about. Brian Phillips thought it might have come into the UK as a small batch and disregarded by the record shops because of the small number available so sold on to the second hand trade. Any information on this record you may have would be warmly welcomed. As for Baby Reconsider all I can say is you sure found a classic in the making well done.
ReplyDeleteHi Boffy and Gerry,
ReplyDeleteThanks both for replying.
Gerry, your comments re Barbara Mills are very interesting.
I was fortunate to be around and working as a DJ in 1965 when Queen of Fools was issued in the UK on Hickory. BUT, although in Brum we had the Diskery record shop (a real "one off") where I used to spend every Friday lunchtime (being the DJ at Le Metro Club) listening to all the releases, I missed its issue. DJ's/Collectors then, including me, tended to concentrate on the more popular soul/rhythm and soul labels. The first Hickory label single that was really taken up by the original Mod scene (from which, of course, Northern Soul emanated) was Run Baby Run (Newbeats). There were one or two "Pop" issues on the label earlier which were played at the "non-soul" venues such as The Locarno but these were of course ignored by us. Just to be clear, in 1965, sight of an import singles was virtually unknown - even at The Wheel when that doyen Roger Eagle was at the "old" Wheel - I used to watch intently every week and even suggest tracks to him that he might play"! Brian is probably correct in what he says about this record. My recollection is that Barbara Mills was just not "known" in 1965 and probably not "discovered" until after 1969 when US imports appeared. Because of this this a UK issue extremely rare. Best wishes, Carl Dene
Carl,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comments. 1965 is a bit early for me. I started going to the Torch around 1969 when I was still at school!
In 1965, the Torch was a mod club, with Chris Burton getting many of the top groups of the time to play. The girl who lived next door who was a few years older than me, used to go at that time.
My sister who is 8 years older than me used to see a lot of R&B groups in the early sixties like Gino Washington, The Soul Sisters, and was a big fan of Long John Baldry.
When I first started going to the Torch it was pretty eclectic. There was a lot of Motown, and what is now called Northern, but in the week there were lots of skinheads there so a lot of reggae, also played. This was prior to the all nighters.
I think that what you say about Queen of Fools is right, and probably missed because of Barbara Mills being white and not a recognised soul artist. My recollection of first hearing it was actually probably not until 1971.
I'm in the process of writing a novel based around Northern Soul, and the working class communities and struggles of the 1960's/1970's. I'd be interested in getting information and ideas from people towards it.
Hi Carl,
ReplyDeleteI would be glad to supply you with as much information, as I can. You may like to consider it towards compiling your novel.
In brief I got into the soul scene in 1970-76. I attended the Torch as the soul all nighter, The Cats, The Pendulum, Leeds Central.and Wigan Casino around about 150 times during this period. I lived for the music and all that went with it. I have many close friends that attended earlier venues like Bletso, Earls Barton, Saints & Sinners, from my area. Also in the North along with our mutual friend Brian Phillips, Barry Tasker who I know very well is a real source of info on the early scene. I was the spokes man for The Twisted Wheel Club in the recent campaign to save the 2nd venue location in Whitworth St. I dealt English Heritage regarding listing for the building some interesting facts were uncovered regarding that subject. But I got to speak personal with Ben E King on his many appearances at The Twisted Wheel his accommodation and travel arrangements were far from what we would expect for such a world renowned artist. Well that all lead me to contacting other great artist of the day.So as I am still very active member of the soul scene I would love to be of assistance if you need any do not hesitate in contacting me. Atb Gerry Stewart aka (Irish) from Cambridge....
Gerry,
ReplyDeleteIts me not Carl writing the novel. Thanks for the offer. It will be useful to gather the information from a number of different sources and towns from around the country.
Its going to start in the mid 60's with the Mod scene, and will end around 1976, but literary licence means it can include stuff later than that too, and background information is always useful.
I'm just getting a couple of factual works ready for publication at the moment, and I have another novel I mostly finished some years ago, that I need to edit and publish later this year, but I will be able to start seriously compiling information in a few months time. At the minute, I'm just putting together ideas, and the skeleton of the book.
If you could provide me with an e-mail address, I will contact you, and we could begin to put together ideas.
Hi Boffy,
ReplyDeleteI'm more than happy to add my bit to your novel along with Gerry. I well remember when the original mod scene came about in about 1963 and this led to me having an insatiable appetite for collecting vinyl and becoming a DJ. I'm still suffering now in trying to resist (not really!) a tempting record that I don't have. Good luck with all the work that you have taken on! It will be worth it I'm sure. KTF, Carl Dene
Carl,
ReplyDeleteThanks for that. As with Gerry, it would be useful if you could provide me with an e-mail address at some point.
I may also have to relent and set up a Facebook page. I'm a bit snowed under at the moment with writing to publish publish that I must prioritise, or I'll forever keep amassing ideas and materials without ever publishing it, but I'm hoping to get several books published this year, including my first novel, which I'm hoping to tie in to this one.
The idea with both is that they will be in a format that they will easily be converted to screenplays for films too.
Hi Boffy
ReplyDeleteMy e-mail gerry.stewart56@gmail.com
Carl feel free to take it as well. I look forward to hering from you Boffy and good luck with your current work.
Its always something I fancied doing was writing a novel about my view on the soul scene from my introduction to it concluding with the more recent events. That would keep me busy for a while I am sure.
Gerry,
ReplyDeleteCheers for that. I'll e-mail you soon so that we can chat.
By the way. I'll be going to the Stoke All Nighter at the Town Hall in July. If either of you were intending to go, we could have a chat.
Hi Carl Dene...in your post about "Baby Reconsider"..you mentioned a guy called "Docker" ...Is this the same Docker who used to go to the Wheel with a guy called Gert Kersniok...from Stourport way....
ReplyDeleteHi John, just picked up on your post. Yes, it was the same (one and only!) Docker. I am still in touch with him after meeting him bagain fairly at a Chateau Impney revival night a year or so ago after all these years. This is what he said when I asked him:
ReplyDelete“Gert and his friend Alan Holloway were my travelling companions on our Wheel safari’s. I would pick them up from Alan’s house in Stourport around tea time and we would
set off north with my Bush cassette recorder playing the sounds of the day. I met them at the Chateau and we became firm friends. If my memory serves me right it was Les Cokel who snatched it out of my hands and played it at the Wheel when I first took it up. After all the hype we created about it he was desperate to hear it. He was not disappointed”
All the best, Carl